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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:04:24 Unknown You.
00:00:04:24 - 00:00:08:08 Thea Abby, welcome to Founders in Motion.
00:00:08:08 - 00:00:20:04 Thea Founders in Motion is where we bring you stories from founders, operators and builders in the thick of figuring it all out. I'm Thea, and I'm so excited to be chatting with Abby Huang today,
00:00:20:04 - 00:00:33:17 Thea a Gen Z marketing master. She is the founder of Dime, a marketing platform that connects brands and Gen Z consumers through a network of student ambassadors, data driven campaigns, and in-person events.
00:00:33:19 - 00:00:46:09 Thea Dime has worked with crazy brands that you know and love, like ByteDance, Party for Casetify, to name a few. And there's way more on the horizon, but I guess we can't really chat about it today.
00:00:46:09 - 00:00:49:22 Thea And yeah, welcome to the podcast, Abby.
00:00:49:22 - 00:01:02:12 Abby No, you're too nice. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be on your podcast and also being one of the first few speakers, I'm absolutely honored. And yeah, thank you so much.
00:01:02:12 - 00:01:07:07 Thea So so let's talk about that. Let's talk Gen Z. So I know I'm a Gen Z, but
00:01:07:07 - 00:01:09:13 Thea from a marketing perspective, I guess,
00:01:09:13 - 00:01:18:18 Thea how do brands think about approaching Gen Z consumers and what you, Gen Z, usually kind of respond to?
00:01:18:20 - 00:01:24:02 Abby Yeah. So I think this is a very interesting question that a lot of people do end up asking me.
00:01:24:02 - 00:01:39:22 Abby I believe this next generation is very moldable, like we're very malleable in terms of who we're looking up to and what brands we're, you know, looking to follow and looking to purchase. It's no longer chasing after the loud luxury.
00:01:40:03 - 00:02:09:05 Abby You know, I think that was a lot of the trend back in the day. But now with TikTok shopping, new ways to shop and new avenues for brands to reach out to their end consumers, it really about what the brands are doing to make people like ourselves in this generation feels special. And I think this goes a long way because, right, there's a lot of, staple brands such as like Louis Vuitton and, you know, Gucci and all those, in the loud luxury category.
00:02:09:05 - 00:02:34:12 Abby And I think they're doing amazing for themselves and they will continuously have amazing clients and customers. But nowadays, for Gen Z Zers, we're very spread across different brands that we like. And it's really about what the brand does to, share that with us, share their brand, share their benefits and perks with us. So, you know, one thing that I think is really important is being able to connect with their end users.
00:02:34:17 - 00:03:03:18 Abby These brands don't really just work with, you know, the largest influencers and pray that they're going to get these sales right. It really is about reaching a lot of Gen Z-ers and a lot of end users and making them feel like, you know, the brand is right next to them. So one thing that we've done, and we've seen as a great success story, is mass gifting and mass ambassador campaigns.
00:03:03:18 - 00:03:15:01 Abby what we've done with our ambassador campaigns is we're not focusing on the largest creators and making them feel like really special, right? Because they might not even be the end users for the brands. Yeah.
00:03:15:03 - 00:03:20:11 Abby They, you know, they get so many gifts and they shout out so many brands. You.
00:03:20:13 - 00:03:36:21 Thea Know, they can say, like, I love watching those like, videos where, like the, the big influencer is like unbox, like all of their, like, gifting, over the holidays. And I'm like, that's crazy. It's like a mountain of things like accumulated within a month, right?
00:03:36:22 - 00:03:43:14 Abby It's a mountain of things that and a mountain of brands that potentially they might not even be the end users for.
00:03:43:16 - 00:03:48:04 Thea Yeah. They get like two three seconds on, like a random like reels.
00:03:48:06 - 00:04:12:13 Abby Yeah. And then it's not like they are the ultimate people that will purchase the brand, right? So that's where we are targeting. And we differentiate ourselves is you're not giving out a gift to make an, like, just an influencer right now feel special. You're really gifting everyone and making, you know, your ultimate audience feel special so that they remain loyal consumers with you.
00:04:12:13 - 00:04:25:00 Abby So I think that's one thing that is going to be a new trend going forward. And I really do hope that it is because, as you mentioned, all these influencers getting like a mountain of
00:04:25:00 - 00:04:25:24 Abby gifts.
00:04:25:24 - 00:04:37:24 Abby Why not gift out those to people who will actually buy your products, right? So one thing that, and one case study that was very successful for one of our ambassador launch campaigns is with Lulu's.
00:04:37:24 - 00:04:39:20 Abby So they did a mass,
00:04:39:20 - 00:05:04:24 Abby sortie gifting for people that are looking to buy going out clothes. I constantly so this, like, not only leaves an impression. And, you know, they feel special about. Oh, I'm being gifted by Lulu's this also allows them because they're the end users. The next time they want to buy a dress, they're like, oh, I've been gifted from Lulu's, like, I definitely check out their site or I'd make a purchase through Lulu.
00:05:04:24 - 00:05:16:18 Abby It's like, know these products. Like, you see Louis Vuitton sending a whole bag to like these influencers. And it's like a lot of the time is like, they might not be the people that will buy your bags, you know? Yeah
00:05:16:20 - 00:05:22:00 Abby The people that will buy the Louis Vuitton bags are not influencers per se, but then they get gifted,
00:05:22:00 - 00:05:24:14 Abby which is like great marketing tactic.
00:05:24:14 - 00:05:34:13 Abby I think both sides needs to be used to be very effective. So we're targeting the latter side, like being able to speak to your end users.
00:05:35:07 - 00:05:58:04 Thea That's super interesting. So it so it really comes at both sides. Brands need to identify kind of target users and therefore kind of target influencers and target people that they want to reach out to help market. And then on Dime side like identifying the different segments of groups of people within, even like a university campus that would,
00:05:58:04 - 00:06:01:19 Thea be well suited for promoting a particular item.
00:06:01:19 - 00:06:04:16 Thea So on the flip side of like,
00:06:04:16 - 00:06:09:19 Thea like managing kind of that student ambassador network, like, how does a team think about,
00:06:09:19 - 00:06:14:22 Thea who will be a great kind of student ambassador and micro influencer?
00:06:14:22 - 00:06:19:05 Thea And kind of helping them grow throughout their influencer journey?
00:06:19:21 - 00:06:27:09 Abby Yeah, I think that word, the term influencer nowadays is tossed around and use like it wasn't.
00:06:28:09 - 00:06:39:17 Abby meant to be used like initially. So I kind of like the word ambassador a lot more because it's like a brand ambassador. And that person can be an influencer. They can be a micro influencer.
00:06:39:17 - 00:06:51:24 Abby But what I think was very interesting with like selecting these people, right? It's ultimately about who the brand wants because client ultimately decides on what their brand image is like.
00:06:52:03 - 00:06:55:16 Abby They know their brand the best. Of course, we can offer advice and whatnot. And
00:06:55:16 - 00:06:57:10 Abby but, you know, ultimately we do,
00:06:57:10 - 00:07:06:07 Abby make sure that our service and our products are catered towards our clients. So if our clients like, oh, I just want to focus on sororities or,
00:07:06:07 - 00:07:13:06 Abby I want to focus on recent grads who are content creators, then we really hyper target to those,
00:07:13:06 - 00:07:14:06 Abby communities.
00:07:14:08 - 00:07:23:07 Abby And yeah, going back to the same point earlier, it's just that these people, they're ultimately just regular either students or,
00:07:23:07 - 00:07:24:13 Abby recent grads,
00:07:24:13 - 00:07:28:19 Abby working 9 to 5 or they're doing their own very exciting,
00:07:28:19 - 00:07:37:05 Abby start ups or ventures. They like to create content on the side. And I think that just adds like another personal touch for a lot of these brands.
00:07:37:10 - 00:07:56:11 Abby So being able to get people like that who are not constantly just like bombarded with gifts and different brand deals and, you know, we know that these people are being paid to do like an ad campaign. I think that goes a long way because it's like, hey, like, I actually know that person from school or I know that person.
00:07:56:13 - 00:08:01:17 Abby That person's like a peer. And there were so cool brand. So like, I'm going to check it out.
00:08:01:17 - 00:08:25:01 Abby But when it comes to another sort of like influencer that I may or may not follow, it we know what is the behind the scenes, and we know that there's money going in, money going out. They are tracking all the metrics versus if it's just a regular ambassador campaign where it's like, hey, like a cool person doing cool things.
00:08:25:01 - 00:08:28:24 Abby Like, I definitely want to check that out and and learn more about the brand.
00:08:28:24 - 00:08:35:21 Abby Ultimately, I think paid advertising also goes a long way. So I think a combination which we are doing for our clients,
00:08:35:21 - 00:08:42:14 Abby is being able to launch an ambassador program and hyper target with paid advertising.
00:08:42:16 - 00:08:54:05 Thea Yeah, I mean, that that's super interesting. And I do very much agree with you. The influencer term has just been thrown a lot around in the last 5 or 7 years.
00:08:54:05 - 00:09:06:09 Thea And now I want to shift gears a little bit. Let's talk TikTok. So crazy. Crazy. So,
00:09:06:09 - 00:09:09:01 Thea and maybe not TikTok, but TikTok's,
00:09:09:01 - 00:09:10:14 Thea Chinese little sister.
00:09:10:16 - 00:09:18:22 Thea So XiaoHongShu or Red Note took over US app downloads and the news in the days leading to TikTok bans.
00:09:18:22 - 00:09:27:22 Thea Well, not ban anymore, but impending banned. What is your perspective on XiaoHongShu durability in the US market?
00:09:27:24 - 00:09:34:22 Abby Yeah, I think this is super, super interesting and so relevant to, you know, the recent days of social media.
00:09:34:22 - 00:09:47:12 Abby Because I kid you not, when the message popped up and you know, you can no longer use TikTok ,like my, I have a team, right? Doing a lot of my content. Unfortunately, I love to be hands on with content.
00:09:47:14 - 00:09:52:07 Abby But that is no longer the case. So I have a,
00:09:52:07 - 00:09:58:20 Abby team member who would constantly send me TikToks and say like, hey, is this like a TikTok? Like, can we reuse it? Repurpose it?
00:09:58:20 - 00:10:04:19 Abby And then I was just like, yeah, like if there's a TikTok ban, let's just use a VPN. But like, that was not the case.
00:10:04:19 - 00:10:06:07 Abby I don't think VPN works,
00:10:06:07 - 00:10:14:17 Abby during, you know, the time of the ban. So we were just freaking out during and we're like, oh my God. Like, where do we get our content? Like, should we go to XiaoHongShu? Like, should we,
00:10:14:17 - 00:10:20:08 Abby like work with our current creators to get their content? Like, that's so much work and, you know, this and that.
00:10:20:08 - 00:10:20:23 Abby So,
00:10:20:23 - 00:10:23:11 Abby and then I think there was just like a moment of,
00:10:23:11 - 00:10:31:13 Abby shock during that period. And I messaged a lot of my clients and I was just like, hey, like, you know, stay tuned. Like, you know, there's this new,
00:10:31:13 - 00:10:38:00 Abby arenas and avenues that we can explore to, you know, target that generation if it's actually going to be banned.
00:10:38:02 - 00:10:45:14 Abby We can look into how we can look heavier into Instagram and, you know, whatnot. And I think the clients also knew that this was,
00:10:45:14 - 00:10:51:23 Abby an, you know, an impending issue that will that they would ultimately have to face.
00:10:51:23 - 00:10:57:04 Abby And we saw everyone go to XiaoHongShu, even before the ban officially started and all the hype.
00:10:57:06 - 00:10:59:13 Abby So a lot of my clients,
00:10:59:13 - 00:11:10:05 Abby requested from me, they're like, hey, like, can we look into XiaoHongShu? You have creators there? Like, can we, you know, ambassadors like us launch a, you know, smaller campaign for XiaoHongShu. And we actually did one,
00:11:10:05 - 00:11:10:16 Abby for.
00:11:10:17 - 00:11:12:04 Thea Oh, really?
00:11:12:04 - 00:11:18:05 Abby Yeah. Yeah. Like literally last minute because they're like, oh, no. Like, I think, you know, we want to run off this hype and this client is,
00:11:18:05 - 00:11:22:01 Abby Asia based brand. So they're very flexible with XiaoHongShu and,
00:11:22:01 - 00:11:29:12 Abby you know, they're like, oh, we should kind of get started on this, like right now. Like there's a deadline of like Jan 19th and we have a really good relationship.
00:11:29:12 - 00:11:30:05 Abby So,
00:11:30:05 - 00:11:35:07 Abby it's really like if they have any needs from us and our ambassadors, like, we're able to get it done.
00:11:35:07 - 00:11:45:08 Abby But really, in that short period of time, we were able to cater towards like some of our clients, and seeing that they're also seeing it as an opportunity is very interesting.
00:11:45:08 - 00:11:58:06 Abby And then going back to your question, I definitely am seeing how brands are very reliant on TikTok, which is great because like one of my clients, like I just checked recently,
00:11:58:06 - 00:12:04:14 Abby had over seven figures, like high seven figures in revenue on TikTok shop.
00:12:04:14 - 00:12:05:10 Abby And just to like think about..
00:12:05:10 - 00:12:06:03 Thea No way!
00:12:06:05 - 00:12:09:12 Abby ..their perspective. Yeah, from their perspective.
00:12:09:14 - 00:12:12:13 Thea They must been freaking out about the TikTok ban.
00:12:12:14 - 00:12:32:18 Abby Right? Right. So they lose that revenue stream. And, you know, I just can't imagine like kind of being in their shoes and having to kind of go through that moment of panic because, you know, for us it's like, hey, we always have other revenue streams and we're always trying to target new avenues for our clients. If they like TikTok will do TikTok, where if they like other platforms like, well, we'll be flexible
00:12:32:18 - 00:12:33:16 Abby versus these clients.
00:12:33:16 - 00:12:34:22 Abby Like, I think there's a lot of,
00:12:34:22 - 00:12:37:09 Abby really good sales that came from TikTok. Yeah.
00:12:37:09 - 00:12:38:21 Abby Very interesting. So,
00:12:38:21 - 00:12:47:08 Abby I definitely, you know, feel for them, like for Dime too, right? Like one of our clients, we’re slightly impacted by the ban.
00:12:47:08 - 00:12:58:08 Abby And, you know, that's a little bit unfortunate on our end, but we definitely strive to continue working with the amazing people from those companies,
00:12:58:08 - 00:13:00:10 Abby that were impacted by the TikTok ban.
00:13:00:10 - 00:13:03:15 Abby And I think this just goes to show that,
00:13:03:15 - 00:13:07:05 Abby We can really spread ourselves thin on like one platform.
00:13:07:05 - 00:13:10:06 Abby finally, the point of will it be going away?
00:13:10:06 - 00:13:20:10 Abby So I think for the very like US based brands that we work with, like XiaoHongShu was never in the equation. But for a lot of our international clients, which we have a lot,
00:13:20:10 - 00:13:23:01 Abby they're like, oh, can we think about XiaoHongShu? Can we look into XiaoHongShu?
00:13:23:06 - 00:13:28:01 Abby So the clients were definitely there for the hype in terms of like the international clients.
00:13:28:01 - 00:13:36:14 Abby However, I don't really see the current continuation, at least of now, like as of now, because of the,
00:13:36:14 - 00:13:45:18 Abby you know, it being 12 hours and TikTok being back, I did. I do realize that there is a, you know, uptick of users on the platform.
00:13:45:18 - 00:13:46:17 Abby So a lot of,
00:13:46:17 - 00:13:59:09 Abby American users, a lot of ABCs or international students and like, student creators kind of jumped onto XiaoHongShu and I think that will continue. I think there will be resurface like interest from,
00:13:59:09 - 00:14:09:03 Abby these creators on XiaoHongShu, but in terms of user downloads and continuous content and like seeing all these celebrities come on.
00:14:09:03 - 00:14:12:19 Abby Like, I think that hype has probably died down,
00:14:12:19 - 00:14:25:09 Abby and may not continue until, you know, there's no other solution, after TikTok. But right now, TikTok seems like it's doing fine and I think,
00:14:25:09 - 00:14:36:10 Abby you know, XiaoHongShu would be a great avenue for a lot of international brands, but probably not fully integrated into the U.S and I don't think it ever could be because of all the restrictions.
00:14:36:10 - 00:14:40:04 Abby Right? There's so many risks, and Chinese government. I was talking to,
00:14:40:04 - 00:14:43:03 Abby a brand the other day called Darry Ring.
00:14:43:03 - 00:14:55:23 Abby They’re.. it's called D.R. in Asia, and it's like you may have heard of it. It's like the ring where like you only wear, you could only purchase that ring once for your significant other because they check your,
00:14:55:23 - 00:14:57:05 Abby IDs and all of that.
00:14:57:05 - 00:15:02:23 Abby So it’s like a romantic gesture. It's like, oh, you can oh, like your boyfriend or your,
00:15:02:23 - 00:15:07:19 Abby like, fiance bought this ring for you. It means that, like, they've never bought it for, like, anyone else.
00:15:07:19 - 00:15:14:03 Abby they've done really well and volumes on like social media. And they're looking to look into the US market.
00:15:14:03 - 00:15:36:02 Thea so you work with brands of varying different sizes. And I was just wondering, like if there were in a very early stage company just starting out with super limited budget, super limited reach, what advice would you give them on building an authentic and engaging connection with their consumer or future consumer?
00:15:36:04 - 00:15:43:19 Abby Yeah, I love that question. Because, you know, Dime, we work with a lot of large companies,
00:15:43:19 - 00:15:45:21 Abby that have either IPO
00:15:45:21 - 00:16:03:03 Abby or are doing billion plus second revenue and but we also and we don't share this often, but we also take a lot of sales call and client calls, advising smaller companies and smaller startups that may be interested in our solution down the line.
00:16:03:05 - 00:16:06:22 Abby Or we've actually worked with some of these startups that are,
00:16:06:22 - 00:16:13:09 Abby you know, semi on the ground or they had great products and they had traction or,
00:16:13:09 - 00:16:18:17 Abby yeah. Like we don't really say like, hey, if you don't hit, you know, this certain,
00:16:18:17 - 00:16:20:14 Abby mark in terms of,
00:16:20:14 - 00:16:27:24 Abby revenue and whatnot, we're not working with you. It looks like that in terms of, like, the client volumes that we're doing because they just have a lot of marketing budget.
00:16:27:24 - 00:16:39:15 Abby And that's like the good things and advantages that comes with being a big company. You just have a marketing budget to raise brand awareness, which goes a long way, but you may not immediately see,
00:16:39:15 - 00:16:44:15 Abby an, you know, an uptick in one sale or like, you know, dollar sign, a dollar sign.
00:16:44:15 - 00:16:46:23 Abby But it's hard to track a lot of these things.
00:16:46:23 - 00:16:53:07 Abby And I think there's so many startups even trying to do that and, you know, track like, hey, like, if I've invested this much into this,
00:16:53:07 - 00:17:06:22 Abby marketing campaign, what am I getting out of it? And like, who's ultimately buying from this marketing campaign? But you really lose out on so many of those, like buyers who may be impacted by like a friend of yours, like posting about it.
00:17:06:22 - 00:17:11:02 Abby Oh, maybe I'll go and, you know, purchase a product. And, you know, there are
00:17:11:02 - 00:17:31:07 Abby other people that are seeing the content or whatever the marketing campaign is may go and purchase a product, but it's untracked. So there's like so many different ways to track a lot of these metrics that end up just not being very effective. So I really do advise,
00:17:31:07 - 00:17:38:16 Abby companies that obviously have the bandwidth to invest in marketing, to invest in a little bit of marketing,
00:17:38:16 - 00:17:45:23 Abby when they're starting out, because the brand image definitely puts the brand out there and it defines the brand.
00:17:45:23 - 00:17:48:07 Abby We've actually worked on a very cool campaign with,
00:17:48:07 - 00:17:54:11 Abby a smaller size company, but then their values are super powerful.
00:17:54:11 - 00:18:02:05 Abby And I think that really ties into some of our core values, because it looks like on the outside, like, hey, we're we're having fun.
00:18:02:05 - 00:18:05:08 Abby Like, we're a group of people that, you know, community,
00:18:05:08 - 00:18:18:07 Abby and, you know, we strive for being able to deliver these products and these campaigns for groups that may not immediately resurface or surface as, like our immediate brand.
00:18:18:07 - 00:18:30:01 Abby And I think that direction of that campaign is something that I truly believe in. And like, I'm excited to do more with this client and,
00:18:30:01 - 00:18:35:01 Abby this brand, because I think the messaging is very powerful and something that I'd love to push forth,
00:18:35:01 - 00:18:42:23 Thea So yeah, like moving a little bit, segue a little bit to, your journey of building Dime.
00:18:42:23 - 00:18:44:04 Thea So,
00:18:44:04 - 00:18:47:11 Thea one of the secret perks of hosting this podcast is,
00:18:47:11 - 00:18:51:20 Thea getting a preview pass to Abby story before you hit record.
00:18:51:20 - 00:18:57:09 Thea Partly so I can ask the right questions, but also so we don't spill anything confidential.
00:18:57:09 - 00:19:09:17 Thea So during our chat, one thing that really stuck out to me was Abby mentioning getting her first client was such an uphill battle to tell me, Abby, like, how did you, fight this battle?
00:19:09:19 - 00:19:11:07 Thea How did you do it?
00:19:11:09 - 00:19:30:04 Abby Yeah. Let's see. I think a lot of the times it really is that, you know, initial first client and but believing in yourself and gaining that credibility in yourself and having the conviction that goes a long way, and and in the beginning, I don't think I had that,
00:19:30:04 - 00:19:45:07 Abby so a lot of times in the beginning, I think being able to do sales very effectively and, do things at a reasonable cost for your client so that they see the benefits right off the bat and they stay with you is very important.
00:19:45:12 - 00:19:49:14 Abby So, like in the very, very beginning, when Dime was like an Instagram page and,
00:19:49:14 - 00:20:00:24 Abby you know, we're still, like, poking in the dark, we did a lot of things for free, and we did a lot of things just because it's like a interesting project or interesting brand,
00:20:00:24 - 00:20:10:07 Abby or at an incredibly low cost, where we're kind of either breaking even or even losing out, for our clients, because that's how much we believe in,
00:20:10:07 - 00:20:17:01 Abby pushing their products out, because we believe that it's good products and we believe that we have, you know, the core consumers for it.
00:20:17:01 - 00:20:19:08 Abby So we're happy to do it for a low cost.
00:20:19:08 - 00:20:25:19 Abby it was great market research. Right? I'm gaining a lot because I'm able to talk to the client. And,
00:20:25:19 - 00:20:32:04 Abby and the stakes are not as high because, you know, they know that we're really just putting in the effort to help them, and that creates that connection,
00:20:32:04 - 00:20:32:20 Abby and
00:20:32:20 - 00:20:53:18 Abby they will further continue their relationship with you. And that really happened with me. Not only did I get market research, I got the relationship out of the client. I understood what the clients are looking for. So I'm able to tailor my solution to fit more client's needs. So delivering on a campaign, also for a lower cost and,
00:20:53:18 - 00:20:54:14 Abby higher volume,
00:20:54:14 - 00:21:08:23 Abby so being able to do more campaigns is like training a muscle. And initially you're really being able to capture a lot of these clients and like what their needs are and try to deliver on them. It's like training yourself. And one thing that one of my,
00:21:08:23 - 00:21:16:02 Abby one of one of the really, like successful founders have like once told me, pretty recently, actually.
00:21:16:03 - 00:21:16:20 Abby And,
00:21:16:20 - 00:21:20:02 Abby this is a company that we may or may not collaborate with. We don't know. But,
00:21:20:02 - 00:21:21:21 Abby one of the founders, they're,
00:21:21:21 - 00:21:26:17 Abby runs like, this crazy company. So I was like, crazy amounts on Amazon.
00:21:26:17 - 00:21:34:01 Abby He was like, really get good at one thing. If your clients are tasking you with a task that is not your main,
00:21:34:01 - 00:21:40:12 Abby trajectory or like your main goal, then, you know, really do think about that if you wanna
00:21:40:12 - 00:21:49:19 Abby do, you know, all that time commitment or commit your time to doing a project that isn't your main focus? Because once you get good at your main focus,
00:21:49:19 - 00:21:58:22 Abby you're able to up charge, you're able to do higher volumes, and really gain the most out of this skill that you've built, right? That other people may not have.
00:21:58:22 - 00:22:02:15 Abby So it's like a moat that you create for yourself and in your company.
00:22:03:00 - 00:22:07:01 Thea Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that completely makes sense. And,
00:22:07:01 - 00:22:20:22 Thea obviously, I guess, like in this new day and age, client relationships aren't just kind of a one off email ,like everyone that I've talked to really emphasizes on the idea of you have need to build that relationship slowly, kind of build that rapport.
00:22:20:24 - 00:22:27:16 Thea And then slowly they might become referrals or even just even advisors that can help you. Yeah.
00:22:27:16 - 00:22:38:12 Abby Yeah, that's actually really interesting because initially, yeah, exactly. It either starts off as a cold email or referral and whatnot. Or larger brand deals eventually came,
00:22:38:12 - 00:22:41:12 Abby after we found more of a product market fit. And we've tried
00:22:41:12 - 00:22:44:00 Abby and tested it out with like, smaller brands,
00:22:44:00 - 00:22:49:13 Abby at a low cost. And then we came across, the interest of Casetify, which
00:22:49:13 - 00:22:52:20 Abby is an amazing company, you know, founded in my hometown as well.
00:22:52:20 - 00:22:53:12 Abby So I had,
00:22:53:12 - 00:22:54:14 Abby you know, personal
00:22:54:14 - 00:23:01:04 Abby connection to the company as I've seen it in my younger days, like growing up in Hong Kong,
00:23:01:04 - 00:23:07:18 Abby when it's just starting and then definitely, you know, a great, great brand over on. It's crazy to see how much they've expanded.
00:23:07:18 - 00:23:10:21 Abby Yeah, they're doing a lot on like, U.S. expansion. And,
00:23:10:21 - 00:23:19:12 Abby you know, the whole brand is so young in terms of their target audience or looking for Gen Z-ers and you see all these celebrities and,
00:23:19:12 - 00:23:40:07 Abby whatnot just organically using the brand because it's good. And they're not, you know, being paid for certain campaigns, which I think that is so cool to see because a lot of times like these creators and large influencers or celebrities like Kylie Jenner, for example, they get paid so much to do an ad for a product that they don't even use.
00:23:40:09 - 00:24:02:02 Abby But then the, you know, phone cases they actually use religiously and you just see it on their Instagram pages and it's like really cool to see what is an actual product that they like. Yeah. And yeah, and it's an amazing journey being able to work with them. And we're continuously working with them right now on different projects and focusing on different needs.
00:24:02:04 - 00:24:06:06 Abby And yeah, ambassador campaigns, all that, all that fun stuff.
00:24:06:08 - 00:24:06:18 Thea Yeah,
00:24:06:18 - 00:24:22:08 Thea one thing that really stuck out when you were talking to me was the idea of product market fit. Talk to me a little bit about what was the early days iteration of Dime and what did that look like?
00:24:22:11 - 00:24:28:10 Abby So back in the day, we were poking in a lot of places,
00:24:28:10 - 00:24:41:09 Abby and and funny enough, the name Dime ambassador kind of came about in a way that I did not even know what Dime was, but people just started calling themselves as like, our ambassadors and Dime ambassadors.
00:24:41:09 - 00:24:44:01 Abby And I was like, they had that a good ring to it.
00:24:44:01 - 00:24:48:08 Abby And then that kind of took me to a spot where, hey, we want to run ambassador campaigns and,
00:24:48:08 - 00:24:58:04 Abby stuff that would allow companies to mass target these ambassadors and reach their end users, become more so of a Facebook ad rather than,
00:24:58:04 - 00:25:07:10 Abby matching software with, like, the largest influencers or like, the largest, like, people to collaborate with because there's like tons of other companies, amazing companies doing that,
00:25:07:10 - 00:25:31:22 Abby and I don't think that's an area where we'd like to compete. And it's yeah, oversaturated in terms of, finding product market fit, I do, you know, the age old saying of building something that people want is very important. I had to learn that when I got my first paying clients right? That's when I've built something that people want.
00:25:31:24 - 00:25:34:12 Abby I think building something that people want
00:25:34:12 - 00:26:07:22 Abby really is key because that's product market fit. It's not about selling, you know, one thing one time and calling it a day. Like, hey, I've sold one product that's product market fit, or I've sold one product to like 100 people. Like that's, you know, they need to continuously come back. And I think that's that's product market fit for me because these clients are not just, hey, like, I'll give your service or your company a try and then, never hear back from you guys or never respond again.
00:26:07:24 - 00:26:18:16 Abby I get, I'm getting, you know, emails again and saying like, hey, we'd love to explore a new campaign for 2025. Like, we'd love to, be on a one year,
00:26:18:16 - 00:26:34:11 Abby contract retainer and whatnot. These are signs where clients are like, hey, this is a good service. It's a good product. This is, you know, someone, a partner that we want and need in our, to support our company's growth.
00:26:34:13 - 00:26:46:06 Abby I think that's where a lot of the part of market fit and validation comes in. It's not about one time. Oh, I'll give you a try. It's really about, like, recurring clients.
00:26:46:08 - 00:26:59:03 Thea Yeah. Yeah, I love that perspective because I think some people forget that to get a customer to come back is what's really most important, that that kind of customer loyalty.
00:26:59:03 - 00:27:06:14 Thea You mentioned you started this at Duke. And I wanted to ask you, like, how was it like being
00:27:06:14 - 00:27:10:24 Thea a non-technical female founder in college like that?
00:27:10:24 - 00:27:15:03 Thea You get as much clout as, like, the crypto boys.
00:27:15:05 - 00:27:17:22 Abby Oh, my God, the crypto boys, right? Like..
00:27:17:22 - 00:27:19:06 Thea Crypto boys.
00:27:19:11 - 00:27:30:23 Abby We also have a client that is in crypto. But I mean, like, you know, that's really funny. I love her, she's one of my dear friends. Now I'm actually grabbing, dinner with her.
00:27:30:23 - 00:27:43:16 Abby But it's a little sidetracked there. But, yeah, I think not at all. I think the, the part of, like, me being an entrepreneur has always shown or, you know, has always
00:27:43:16 - 00:27:51:12 Abby been a thing that I've been dedicated to back in college, and I didn't really care about what other people think, or I tried to not care,
00:27:51:12 - 00:28:13:24 Abby I just think that being an entrepreneur is super fun. And, in such a judgmental space in, like, college, right? Once you're out, I think it's much more acceptable. And socially, I wouldn't say socially, it's always socially acceptable to be an entrepreneur, but you just kind of put in a smaller community in college where people do judge you.
00:28:13:24 - 00:28:14:10 Abby And,
00:28:14:10 - 00:28:25:12 Abby especially being so young, you're definitely very influenced by your friends and people around you and what they say. But I was never hiding the fact that I'm an entrepreneur, and I want to start my own thing.
00:28:25:12 - 00:28:31:05 Abby Yeah. I think it runs in the family and your upbringing as well. My brother is also an entrepreneur.
00:28:31:05 - 00:28:53:08 Abby He's made and sold his screen monitors and he's just starting college. Yeah, he's super cute. And and yeah, it is just crazy to see, like, a whole family, we're all very entrepreneurial. So yeah. And going back to that point, you know, in college I was too young to really know what I was doing and trying to find market fit and, you know, product market fit.
00:28:53:08 - 00:29:18:20 Abby You know, just building community, being sort of a nonprofit and helping brands and connecting brands to younger people at a very small scale. And, and I had a lot of fun doing it. But there is no immediately, you know, a trajectory or, you know, people that would believe in what I do. So that kind of pushed me down and weighed me down a little bit.
00:29:18:22 - 00:29:37:20 Abby But, you know, I think really being, being female and being not, you know, the non-conventional archetype and being younger helps me in, like, what I'm doing nowadays because they understand that, hey, I'm of this generation. I know what I'm talking about. I have peers that are,
00:29:37:20 - 00:29:42:01 Abby large creators and, you know, or micro creators that have high influence,
00:29:42:01 - 00:30:01:12 Abby you know, and then it comes with the paying clients and, you know, people can say things nowadays to me that would have impacted me back then, but I don't think it impacts me now because, hey, like, you know, I'm working with these big brands trying to deliver their values and mission,
00:30:01:12 - 00:30:03:10 Abby to, to the younger
00:30:03:10 - 00:30:30:17 Abby audiences and helping them launch their campaigns, being one of their little engines in their company. Yeah, I think that just gives me so much confidence and conviction and credibility. And I know now that I can definitely do it myself and, you know, have a great team that supports me. But back in the day, I didn't know. So really being able to build up that confidence, as a female founder is very important I think.
00:30:30:19 - 00:30:36:22 Thea Yeah, I love that. I mean.. Still working on it... I personally think females are very powerful.
00:30:36:22 - 00:30:51:07 Thea So I remember you mentioned one of your skills you picked up with Dime is being a better salesperson. Looking back, what's the wildest pitch or pitch strategy that you've used to land a client?
00:30:51:07 - 00:31:16:21 Abby This is a funny story of how I got better at pitching. I low key, you know, with a bad product, and you can still get sales by pitching that product. I think that really trains that sales skill. All right. If you're able to sell people and get people to pay for a product that doesn't even work, I think that's that takes skill, right?
00:31:17:01 - 00:31:18:09 Abby That some sales skills.
00:31:18:09 - 00:31:20:18 Thea I’m hoping you're not selling products that don't work.
00:31:20:20 - 00:31:24:02 Abby No. But back in the day, you know, when I was poking in the dark,
00:31:24:02 - 00:31:39:06 Abby you know, obviously I live and I learn, I mean, there's a reason why our clients are following us right now because our products do work, but. Or, you know, they have good ROI on their end, and they like it. They like the people and our community and our brand.
00:31:39:06 - 00:31:53:19 Abby But back in the day when we had none of that, and I had just, you know, the idea of what Dime could possibly be, and we've built something that obviously is no longer a thing because we don't like bad products.
00:31:53:19 - 00:32:00:02 Abby But back in the day, I was trying to poke in the dark. And, you know, you always start with the MVP, although the MVP does suck.
00:32:00:02 - 00:32:18:09 Abby And, you know, what not, it is something that I'm like, trying out. I'm like, do clients like this? And, it the concept was good if we had good investment and like, you know, I had invested more into it. But at that point we invested more than we should have.
00:32:18:09 - 00:32:22:16 Abby Or I should have because, yeah, it's just like bad product overall.
00:32:22:18 - 00:32:41:12 Abby And back in the day, because that's kind of the only product that I was confident in, which didn't really make sense, because real product is really myself and my team and the network. I didn't notice that, right? Initially, I was like, we have to be a product of something else. So we created something,
00:32:41:12 - 00:32:48:21 Abby MVP or, you know, I started something that was like told by friends of mine that would be interesting to explore.
00:32:48:21 - 00:32:57:19 Abby So I was like, selling it constantly, sending out a lot of emails. And we're able to sell some, you know, and I've got clients for that and..
00:32:57:21 - 00:33:03:11 Thea Out of curiosity, like, what is this bad MVP? Can you describe it?
00:33:03:11 - 00:33:07:20 Abby it's it's a product that allows companies to find,
00:33:07:20 - 00:33:14:07 Abby the connections to a lot of these ambassadors. So we're trying to build a platform for these ambassadors to join and,
00:33:14:07 - 00:33:25:11 Abby connect with companies. But, you know, this is just a horrendous loophole because anyone building this products would have never interacted with clients themselves because.
00:33:25:13 - 00:33:28:18 Abby anyone in the space or in this, like, marketing,
00:33:28:18 - 00:33:36:06 Abby you know, Gen-Z marketing space would know that if you were to build a product like that, the largest creators would definitely not come on, because they all have agents.
00:33:36:06 - 00:33:42:03 Abby And you're really targeting small creators, and especially with a bad UI, UX like that's not going to go anywhere.
00:33:42:05 - 00:33:49:20 Abby And then clients, right? Clients, they already have their agencies that they're tied to, you know, so some people leverage like Dime as one of the agencies, right?
00:33:49:20 - 00:33:58:03 Abby And we're building a product that tries to forego these agencies, and these clients are just not going to want to pick it up because it's like, I don't know how to use your platform.
00:33:58:03 - 00:34:23:23 Abby It's malfunctioning and it blah, blah, blah. So we're really like, at the end of the day, at capturing the smallest startups that may not have the budget for these agencies and the smallest creators. And at that point, there's no connection to be made because it's such a bad product, bad concept. And I realize that even though and halfway I realized that I'm still like, okay, I'm going to keep selling, I'm going to keep going.
00:34:24:00 - 00:34:42:00 Abby I've gotten some sales, like we've gotten like some like, yeah, like it's interesting that we've gotten these, subscribers onto the platform. But ultimately, you know, you can't out market a bad product. So, you know, now we've built something that people want, and this is something that I'm easily able to sell,
00:34:42:00 - 00:34:44:10 Abby and build client relationships and all of that.
00:34:44:10 - 00:35:12:21 Abby And I think I'm doing it the right way because we actually have something that is, valuable versus the old, you know, iteration or just like a sidetrack that, you know, that small project I did had none of these promises, and I was selling something that I did not believe in. Yeah. So, yeah, that's the craziest strategy, I guess to get better at sales is like, hey, if you have a bad product and you're able to sell it, then you're going to get really good at sales.
00:35:13:02 - 00:35:20:02 Abby Yeah, and now we have like an automated pipeline. We have our outreach, we have our referral system, we have
00:35:20:02 - 00:35:30:04 Abby our team constantly, doing sales in different channels. So now I learned some from selling the old product, how to actually sell something that is worth paying for.
00:35:30:06 - 00:35:36:19 Thea Yeah. I mean, I guess that's your origin story for being a great salesperson. You start from the beginning, right?
00:35:36:21 - 00:35:48:03 Abby Yeah. And all of this is training a muscle, you know, and like for this year, 2025, I think my goal is to take in a lot of clients and,
00:35:48:03 - 00:35:59:00 Abby help them out, like really help them rather than, hey, you can't fit or, you know, minimum orders or minimum requirements. Like, I'm just like, hey, we want to do more brands.
00:35:59:02 - 00:36:08:00 Abby Just like how we're working with so many ambassadors, right? Same with the brands. If it aligns with our value, we're going to take this project on.
00:36:08:00 - 00:36:10:14 Abby Yeah. That's my goal for for 2025.
00:36:10:16 - 00:36:17:14 Thea Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a very busy year ahead. So I hope you can balance your TikTok doomscrolling time with,
00:36:17:14 - 00:36:23:21 Thea focusing on Dime, but, yeah, I mean, thank you Abby.
00:36:23:23 - 00:36:27:17 Abby You will be surprise what's on TikTok shop.
00:36:27:23 - 00:36:39:14 Abby And how it's like a new Amazon in a way. Yeah, but you don't realize that, you know. Yeah, someone said that, like one of my, clients said that. That's really interesting.
00:36:39:16 - 00:36:47:20 Thea Yeah, yeah. I mean, thank you, Abby, for coming on to the show. It's truly been such a fun time speaking with you.
00:36:47:20 - 00:36:55:10 Thea And, yeah, like, looking forward to see what Dime is up to in 2025 and hopefully have you again.
00:36:55:12 - 00:37:03:24 Abby Yeah. I'm so excited. Thank you so much. Also super nice meeting you in this process and being able to share a bit more about my journey.
00:37:03:24 - 00:37:11:24 Unknown You.