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00:00:00:13 - 00:00:03:03 Speaker 1 We realized that, gear that is
00:00:03:03 - 00:00:09:23 Speaker 1 ready for alpine conditions is perfectly good. Even if it's no longer useful there, it’s great for
00:00:09:23 - 00:00:17:00 Speaker 1 a daily life. So we thought we could find a find a way to upcycle that gear and keep it out of the landfill, and make some beautiful product and tell a story along the way.
00:00:17:01 - 00:00:18:12 Speaker 1 And that's really how WipWrk was born.
00:00:18:12 - 00:00:34:10 Speaker 1 if you have modern materials, only cotton for only PVC, or only polyester, there are ways to recycle them, in various kind of techniques to, to do so. But once they're fused incredibly difficult, nigh on impossible to remove and therefore very challenging to recycle.
00:00:34:18 - 00:00:39:16 Speaker 1 The hardest challenge, I think, is maintaining mental balance.
00:00:39:16 - 00:00:49:23 Speaker 1 There's that, those emotional fluctuations of yes, you succeeded or not, that didn't work, and bring yourself back to stable every day to make sure you bring yourself your best version of yourself into the studio every day.
00:00:50:00 - 00:00:57:18 Speaker 1 And I think in general, that's the hardest bit is, is maintaining a level of trust and confidence and stability in yourself to keep on
00:00:57:18 - 00:01:00:14 Speaker 2 For the next founder that we bring on Founders in Motion.
00:01:00:16 - 00:01:02:10 Speaker 2 What question what you want to ask them?
00:01:04:12 - 00:01:09:01 Unknown Hmmm...
00:01:09:01 - 00:01:35:21 Speaker 1 You know those high performance fabrics in your jacket, sleeping bag, or that tent you use once for a music festival? Apparently they're nearly impossible to recycle. But our guest today figured it out. Today on Founders in Motion, we're joined with Ben Wood, a designer turned founder who is on a mission to save technical textiles from the landfills and turn them into beautiful and functional products.
00:01:35:21 - 00:01:39:10 Speaker 2 Bellwood. Welcome to founders of Motion. Adam. Yeah.
00:01:39:10 - 00:01:43:14 Speaker 2 very simplistic term. What does waste and Park is to.
00:01:43:14 - 00:01:52:00 Speaker 1 Waste and progress is a textiles upcycle and a design studio. We work primarily with the outdoor education industry. So
00:01:52:00 - 00:02:08:14 Speaker 1 we take tents and backpacks that have, I guess, past their use by so that the ripsaw that they're no longer functional, for the extreme outdoors and we clean them cut them back into their original components and we, we so and make brand new products from those pieces.
00:02:09:02 - 00:02:11:17 Speaker 1 We realized that, gear that is
00:02:11:17 - 00:02:18:12 Speaker 1 ready for alpine conditions is perfectly good. Even if it's no longer useful there, it’s great for
00:02:18:12 - 00:02:26:04 Speaker 1 a daily life. So we thought we could find a find a way to upcycle that gear and keep it out of the landfill, and make some beautiful product and tell a story along the way. So yeah.
00:02:26:07 - 00:02:51:21 Speaker 2 I love that. I think in emotion and the world in general, we focus so much on tech startups and the unicorns in the world. But I think a lot of really great innovation comes from, something so rooted in creativity and giving it a new life. And we were just talking earlier, but I think moment is such a great space to do that because everyone's in love with like, vintage clothing and the story behind it.
00:02:51:21 - 00:02:54:09 Speaker 2 so what was the first thing that you worked on?
00:02:54:11 - 00:03:14:08 Speaker 1 First thing we worked on was a a chalk bag for rock climbers. So I'm a boulder for many years before this and fell in love with that world. And I've always kind of been in it outside of the outdoors. And so we made essentially a small pot, for, for indoor climbers. There's just been this explosion in the indoor rock climbing
00:03:14:08 - 00:03:16:15 Speaker 1 world, football world in Melbourne.
00:03:16:17 - 00:03:23:12 Speaker 1 And across I mean, it's it's huge now, especially with the, with the world comps and it's in the Olympics and all that.
00:03:23:12 - 00:03:35:18 Speaker 1 And all of my friends, who don't climb outdoors and just climb indoors most of their social life and all that wanted a small pot where they could keep a few things like brushes or tight, always kind of essentials.
00:03:35:20 - 00:04:03:21 Speaker 1 And then keep bedrock. And usually there's small pouches that you climb up like huge roots with you strap to yourself or these big bouldering buckets that usually carry like for the the bouldering obsessed people massive amounts kit. So we thought it'd be great to find a little midpoint, and, and a great way to test out materials and also design for, kind of a community that I knew well and that I had connections in to kind of find our first ways into to retail stores or to gyms and things like that.
00:04:03:21 - 00:04:12:12 Speaker 1 So it's kind of slightly tragic. But also the materials were great for and it was in a community that I thought would be really receptive to a first product like that.
00:04:12:19 - 00:04:15:00 Speaker 2 Yeah, it was that like a consumer product?
00:04:15:02 - 00:04:23:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. It was a consumer product. It was one that we designed for friends and family and all I bouldering mates. And then you have a community here in Melbourne? Yeah.
00:04:24:07 - 00:04:31:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, that was super cool. And I remember when we spoke earlier, you mentioned there was a partnership with Off Track
00:04:31:20 - 00:04:33:04 Speaker 2 talk to me more about that.
00:04:33:08 - 00:04:57:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. Off track. They, one of the key reasons this companies is the way it is, it's it's always exciting in the way it is. Off track is an outdoor gear supply company founded by two outdoor gear heads. So people used to type kids on tabs and, you know, talking about rivers and all that stuff. And they are suppliers of schools, so they have, essentially a contracts with, say, to Summit and Patagonia, all these things.
00:04:57:24 - 00:05:16:18 Speaker 1 And when schools need gear, they contract off track and they get all the kit together for the kids in their camps, they realize that a lot of the gear that was being used on the school camps was being used for five years, whatever it might be, and then it would get damaged and it would often go in the bin.
00:05:16:20 - 00:05:22:18 Speaker 1 Because a lot of outdoor gear has essentially a I use by date.
00:05:23:12 - 00:05:25:22 Speaker 1 Set manufacturer. So, you know.
00:05:26:03 - 00:05:29:05 Speaker 2 Even like textiles, like tents of a use by date.
00:05:29:06 - 00:05:29:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. For
00:05:29:18 - 00:05:46:09 Speaker 1 sure. So waterproofing wears out or they get damaged in some way. And oftentimes they're they're still really good, but they have small issues. And to repair them is really time consuming. And so often I end up getting worn out.
00:05:46:09 - 00:05:51:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. So off track. Eight years ago I found it. I a program called the Second Life Project.
00:05:51:17 - 00:06:14:07 Speaker 1 It's essentially an initiative to take on these tents and backpacks that may not be functional for the outdoors, but still might be useful for local school programs or other social initiatives. Yeah, I think about like, warm clothes. They could still really support maybe the homeless or go to at risk youth who couldn't afford to buy the gear. That's that was their main mission.
00:06:14:09 - 00:06:36:19 Speaker 1 And what they what they realized is some of the gear naturally fed back out into that world, but some didn't. So take a 15 person tent a lot of the time, if it's got a few rips in it, people, people don't want it. It's massive. It sits in the garage, it takes up space. And what we realized, what I realized, was there might be an opportunity to to make new products from that material.
00:06:36:21 - 00:06:38:07 Speaker 1 And so,
00:06:38:07 - 00:07:00:15 Speaker 1 two years ago, we essentially went in not knowing that off track had this initiative recommended by a friend of ours, Derek, who had been in and they had some spare materials, and he was able to to kind of prototype and product design some stuff or products on a of ours. And I asked for some materials and Mitch said, oh, we don't have materials, but we've got a tent
00:07:00:15 - 00:07:06:05 Speaker 1 and, and may at the time and not knowing how to solve, I mean, no idea what I'm doing.
00:07:06:08 - 00:07:20:01 Speaker 1 There's good material in this tent. Maybe I can cut it back into its panels and make something. And so I took it home and I made a little, like a tech pouch and like a little tote bag and brought it back to Mitch, and he's like, no one ever comes back.
00:07:20:01 - 00:07:23:18 Speaker 1 What? What do you mean? You have it, but it it gives off and it goes to a good home.
00:07:23:18 - 00:07:38:08 Speaker 1 But no one's ever come back with anything new. Slightly stunned. And so we took us upstairs and upstairs. I had recently purchased a few sewing machines off the, the founders of, say, to summit, because they'd upgrade all their machines. And so they had these old machines from the 60s, like
00:07:38:08 - 00:07:47:19 Speaker 1 old, beautiful old things that only semi worked and like, hey, do you want to stay up here and, like, help us triage the gear and get it back out?
00:07:47:19 - 00:08:03:09 Speaker 1 But you can also test and solve some things. And this relationship naturally evolved where we supported them with this Second Life project. Yeah. And we were able to carve out some time in like a small studio space to prototype and and develop our skills because, I mean, both Frank and I are self-taught.
00:08:03:09 - 00:08:16:23 Speaker 1 So it's been this quite mutually beneficial relationship where we help them with the gear and we repair for them, and we help triage the gear, get it back out and also we get to take that stuff that's no longer really fit for purpose and turn into products.
00:08:16:23 - 00:08:22:22 Speaker 1 And that's really how WipWrk was born. It was a complete like an opportunity with materials and a mistake in many ways.
00:08:22:22 - 00:08:32:09 Speaker 2 so you get the materials from off track and then you repurpose it, and then do they sell it, or do you guys handle that part too?
00:08:32:11 - 00:08:49:16 Speaker 1 A lot of it's just given away. We don't really sell any of that. It's the whole point is to get the gear back out to at rescues a lot of the time in, in, at these outdoor gear programs. Yeah. And that's kind of the way we kind of help pay our way in, in the space. And it's mutually beneficial, our skills.
00:08:49:18 - 00:09:04:09 Speaker 1 Frank, as an engineer and a business manager, myself as a product designer, we support the boys in their initiatives and their ideas, and they support us in that way, too. So majority time, we don't sell any of it. We just help prepare. They awaken and get the stuff, like, out.
00:09:04:11 - 00:09:06:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, but that sparked the interest, you know?
00:09:06:08 - 00:09:07:00 Speaker 1 Exactly. Right.
00:09:07:00 - 00:09:09:20 Speaker 2 And like, you never know when opportunities will fall in your lap.
00:09:09:21 - 00:09:24:15 Speaker 1 You don't. We were really lucky, in the right space. And and I'm really grateful for their support. And it's been a wonderful relationship. We've gotten over the last year and a half. I forget how many, how long I've been doing this already. Yeah.
00:09:24:16 - 00:09:25:15 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.
00:09:25:15 - 00:09:36:08 Speaker 2 so from the off track project. Yeah. Let's talk about moving to more commercializing. So what was that journey like?
00:09:36:10 - 00:09:50:19 Speaker 1 As you could imagine, when two people fresh out of uni, tried to start a business, you are incredibly excited to make bags for your friends, and you don't worry as much about whether you make any money. It's going to be a sustainable business.
00:09:50:19 - 00:10:12:00 Speaker 1 What are finances? Lots of Italian. And so we spent the first, you know, a few months designing the build a little shelf bag and, and quickly realized, although we sold out of our first run of product, that was really exciting, you know, making 50 small chalk bags a month or whatever it might be was not going to pay ourselves in the long term.
00:10:12:02 - 00:10:34:09 Speaker 1 And we had, an old freelance client of thanks reach out and ask whether we could make some protective packaging for his electronics equipment. So we'd started a small business and these small electronics, kit bags essentially needed protective packaging. And we thought, oh, great, we can do that. We've got sleeping bags. That's the kind of padding.
00:10:34:11 - 00:11:01:08 Speaker 1 And we've got this strong canvas tent base that'll be quite as like a protective layer. Maybe we can. We can fashion something. Yeah. And we did. And that we kind of realized that the commercial space simplifies a lot of the design work, because you're just doing it very functionally. So there's not a lot of marketing required. Not a lot of of complex design, user research, user testing, all of the things that are really important for a consumer product.
00:11:01:14 - 00:11:02:05 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:11:02:07 - 00:11:23:06 Speaker 1 But a very time consuming. And so that doing that first contract was kind of a bit of a turning point. We realized days where we can not just build a financial base for the company. We can also move a lot more material because one of the requirements for the consumer products has to look really good. People want this is an extension of themselves, you know.
00:11:23:06 - 00:11:40:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, you buy things that you love to when they look nice. Whereas a commercial product can be much more functionally driven. And so a lot of the materials that we get are super pretty. And that's fine because they do a really good job because they're designed for like the Arctic or wherever you need to take this stuff.
00:11:40:12 - 00:12:09:05 Speaker 1 And so it's perfect as protective packaging. And so there's a bit of a divide. Then we realized there was real value there, and we started to pick up a few more commercial contracts in different parts of Melbourne. And that slowly has built into where we are now splitting the company in two. So we work two trading times with Work in Progress workshop and then Rip techs, Waste and Progress Textiles and that is now our commercial arm where we work with local business a lot in the manufacturing space,
00:12:09:05 - 00:12:29:02 Speaker 1 who want to take sustainable steps in their processes but don't know how. And we can act as kind of a transitional, I guess, design team, whatever it might be to develop these products made from upcycled materials and make sure that they do their job really well and they trust us.
00:12:29:04 - 00:12:29:23 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:12:30:00 - 00:12:47:14 Speaker 1 Because a lot of it is about it's about trust and, you know, everyone's incredibly busy when you're running a business and you don't have time for things to fall through if that can be avoided. So we make sure we take our time and often co-design. So our design a solution from Virgin Materials that I trust.
00:12:47:18 - 00:12:47:24 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:12:48:00 - 00:13:06:16 Speaker 1 Companies trust and then design one with upcycled materials and test them together to make sure they know the quality's there. And if it's not, we design for them with materials they know, and we keep working to find a material that will work from the upcycled space and then transition them across each of them. Sorry. Yeah, that's that's our approach.
00:13:06:18 - 00:13:23:06 Speaker 2 So if I'm understanding this correctly, there's kind of two pillars to the, two ways in progress. There is the kind of commercial side and also the, working with off track, and just supporting the community there. Is that. Yeah.
00:13:23:08 - 00:13:43:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, I think we, we find it more like a funnel. So the Second Life projects at the top, it collects all the material and all the stuff that's still good to go gets given back out, repaired and given back out. And then we at like the with text works, are we taking all the rest of the material and we divide it into what's going to be good for consumer product and be good for a commercial product?
00:13:43:13 - 00:13:48:06 Speaker 1 And then we go out and say, back into the world that way of material.
00:13:48:11 - 00:13:53:10 Speaker 2 Yeah, we've got so many pillars of the business. So how do you spend all your time?
00:13:53:14 - 00:14:06:16 Speaker 1 we manage it with a lot of a lot of talking. We're in the car. We drive out to Bayswater. I live in Brunswick. Frank's in Abbotsford. And so that's an hour each way, every day where we talk and make sure everything's prioritized really well.
00:14:06:21 - 00:14:25:16 Speaker 1 And then Frank's really good at logically figuring out what's most important. I'm a little bit more scattered, so I try and block everything on the calendar. All prioritized Monday meetings Friday meetings, all of that structural stuff, to make sure that everything is is done, what it needs to be done.
00:14:25:16 - 00:14:29:06 Speaker 2 So the team has been running for a little bit over a year. Year and a half.
00:14:29:06 - 00:14:34:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, we'd be coming up to a year and a half in July.
00:14:34:02 - 00:14:41:09 Speaker 2 We got so soon. What's been the hardest challenge that you've had to overcome?
00:14:41:17 - 00:14:49:04 Speaker 1 The hardest challenge, I think, is maintaining mental balance. I mean, like the, like,
00:14:49:04 - 00:14:52:08 Speaker 1 just like emotional stability, right? That's.
00:14:52:10 - 00:14:52:18 Speaker 2 And
00:14:52:18 - 00:14:53:18 Speaker 1 it upsets it because of
00:14:53:18 - 00:15:09:22 Speaker 1 so many factors like the ambiguity of starting a business, maybe not having a business background and not having a design background. It's it's the it's like team management conflict, all that stuff, purely because you're with someone like 50, 60 hours a week. Yeah. And so there's going to be challenges there and navigating that.
00:15:09:22 - 00:15:27:00 Speaker 1 And then it's also the business side of things like all the ups and downs. I'm I'm self-taught. And so when we go into a client reaches out to ask us, hey, could you do this? I go, yeah, oh, sure, I can. And I'll just have to figure it out and everything like, you know, design late on the design director.
00:15:27:00 - 00:15:40:15 Speaker 1 I guess I have to trust myself to do that and to make sure that what I'm producing is, is I don't is up to the standard that I hold. And a lot of that time is spent worrying whether I'll be out into it or not. And
00:15:40:15 - 00:15:54:04 Speaker 1 I always got there, and I trust myself to always get there. But There's that, those emotional fluctuations of yes, you succeeded or not, that didn't work, and bring yourself back to stable every day to make sure you bring yourself your best version of yourself into the studio every day.
00:15:54:05 - 00:16:18:14 Speaker 1 So, you know, influencing Frank's mood or making a rash decision because you're tired and you're stressed over those systems. And all of the support networks, you have become really valuable in navigating the ambiguity and the risk and all the things you've taken on. And I think in general, that's the hardest bit is, is maintaining a level of trust and confidence and stability in yourself to keep on keeping on.
00:16:18:16 - 00:16:29:13 Speaker 1 And also not to let, the, don't let the grass on the, the grain or on the grass being grown on the other side of that perception, like, draw you away from the business. You know what I mean?
00:16:29:13 - 00:16:30:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. So much.
00:16:30:07 - 00:16:31:13 Speaker 1 But yeah, that stuff.
00:16:31:15 - 00:16:36:22 Speaker 2 And I'm curious, since your creative and Frank's more the business type person, like,
00:16:36:22 - 00:16:42:08 Speaker 2 what's been some challenges merging those two working together.
00:16:42:10 - 00:17:07:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. There's always going to be some challenges there. Because, I mean, neither of us really understood, especially early on, the process that the other one was taking. Yeah. And so Frank saw my creative process. He couldn't understand why I couldn't speed up the creative process in some ways. Like, we need to get this out faster and as much as I could see the numbers required,
00:17:07:14 - 00:17:17:23 Speaker 1 it's, it's it's a balance of like Frank knowing that I need to take my time with things and may try to push myself to get things out as fast as I can because the business can't survive unless it is
00:17:17:23 - 00:17:25:03 Speaker 1 financially like feasible and stable. Right. And so there's a lot of those complexes that say even in the product design process, trade offs between features.
00:17:25:06 - 00:17:50:19 Speaker 1 Well, this extra feature takes 3 to 6 minutes. Can we charge an extra whatever for the product? Doesn't need to be there. What hell are you dying on? What are you letting go of? And so much of that happens, and there's a lot of has to be a lot of respect in the way you communicate and a lot of systems to make sure you know exactly what the mission for the product might be and how you can cut away things or add things based on your user feedback.
00:17:50:19 - 00:17:54:21 Speaker 1 There's always so much in that, in so much communication. And so the challenges
00:17:54:21 - 00:18:05:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, and I'm curious, you can totally say like, yeah, yeah, if you don't feel comfortable answering it. But what's been the hardest climate dynamic that you've had to deal with?
00:18:05:20 - 00:18:07:20 Speaker 1 Oh, we've been blessed with such good clients.
00:18:07:20 - 00:18:32:15 Speaker 1 So lucky that we've had people that are really understanding of what we're doing. And I think so much of that comes back to the mission we're taking on. It's it's, I think in the best interest of, of the whole world, you know, keeping things that alive feel and making the most of what we have and not producing any more than we need to, that people are really respectful and thoughtful and supportive of the mission.
00:18:32:17 - 00:18:35:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. Not thankfully. No. No. Back launch. Yeah.
00:18:35:08 - 00:18:44:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I wanted to touch on a little bit of the, the high performance technical textiles that you work with. Yeah, yeah. Why are they so hard to recycle?
00:18:44:14 - 00:19:07:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's a great question. The challenging because of the properties required, I guess, to perform at that high level. So take a tent for example. Has to perform in quite challenging environments. So, you know, we got rained on camping before ten paces. Need to be durable and need to be waterproof. So often the the tent base is made of canvas that's cotton.
00:19:07:14 - 00:19:33:11 Speaker 1 So an organic material, in a way that's really strong. Cotton, although it's very durable in that way, absorbs water. And so you have to protect it from the water, getting through the tent floor and getting into a sleeping bag, and may be very wet and cold. So they line they coat the inside of the canvas with a PVC, which is a plastic, and once it's infused into that cotton, it is nigh on impossible to.
00:19:33:13 - 00:19:34:15 Speaker 2 To separate.
00:19:34:17 - 00:19:35:07 Speaker 1 And so
00:19:35:07 - 00:20:01:01 Speaker 1 if you have modern materials, only cotton for only PVC, or only polyester, there are ways to recycle them, in various kind of techniques to, to do so. But once they're fused incredibly difficult, nigh on impossible to remove and therefore very challenging to recycle. if not in reality be impossible. There are there's lots of steps being being made to help, recycle these kind of monstrous combination fabrics.
00:20:01:07 - 00:20:02:16 Speaker 1 But we're. Yeah, it's early days.
00:20:03:01 - 00:20:11:08 Speaker 2 Yeah. I was going to ask, are there any cool technologies or emerging things that people are doing in order to recycle these?
00:20:11:10 - 00:20:37:18 Speaker 1 Yeah, there's a couple there's there's people developing like enzymes that can eat one of the materials away. So it only leaves the other one, or the other one that I heard off recently. I think it's a little startup in in Spain and Portugal. I can't quite remember where, where they developed heat dissolvable thread. So if you imagine your pants, you know, made of cotton and then like this heat dissolvable thread, you throw them in like a heating chamber, the thread melts away and the panels come out as just cotton.
00:20:37:23 - 00:20:41:17 Speaker 1 Brilliant. Then it can be recycled and re woven and started fresh.
00:20:41:19 - 00:20:43:12 Speaker 2 Oh super interesting.
00:20:43:12 - 00:20:55:15 Speaker 2 And I want to ask. So what's your advice to someone who's got creative ideas? A lot of creative vision, but maybe doesn't see themselves as business minded?
00:20:55:18 - 00:21:25:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. The and this is basically me in a nutshell because I do not have Twitter. Right. So you just ask me the right person. I thought if I start this from scratch, I would build a foundational understanding of business through good books, you know, Small Business for dummies kind of stuff. And then I would go to meetups, I would network, I would build my connections in my local community because it's so awkward and, well to have those foundations, but very challenging to apply them, especially if you have a unique idea that doesn't fit traditional models.
00:21:25:08 - 00:21:31:16 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I would go straight for the people who or the founders who are doing analogous, similar things and learn from them.
00:21:31:16 - 00:21:32:16 Speaker 1 That's the best way for sure.
00:21:32:16 - 00:21:51:22 Speaker 2 and I think we touched on this a little bit earlier, but like diving deeper into that, like how do you balance staying true to your creative vision? Meeting things like bottom line or like client requirements or like not creating too many features that eats into your margins and business things like that.
00:21:51:24 - 00:22:12:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. With with difficulty. I definitely came from a very perfectionist mindset. Right. I think a lot of designers struggle with that, and it has taken time and communication and understanding of business foundations and fundamentals for me to make those tradeoffs. So it's really also very, very difficult to deal with. Probably at the start with frank thing like, no, this year I said I needed time.
00:22:12:15 - 00:22:31:10 Speaker 1 We're going to put an image. I mean, we can frame it double time for making the product. And yeah, we won't be here. And in a few years time if we keep sticking with that stuff. So a lot of it is about setting intentions and being incredibly clear about what you're trying to create and where it's going to be most beneficial.
00:22:31:10 - 00:22:53:07 Speaker 1 And we talk a lot about the 8020 principle and which essentially we say juice worth squeeze, you know, is it worth the effort? And is it going to make the difference. And so it's an ongoing discussion constantly. But we make sure the foundation is a really clear when we start a product and then when push comes to shove in manufacturing.
00:22:53:07 - 00:23:11:09 Speaker 1 So we're in our product development process. We time every single step to the second, so we know what's costing us the most. And we can go through element by element to know, is this going to be valuable for not just the user but the business and make that call, later down the line? But you create a lot of gates and checks and stuff.
00:23:11:09 - 00:23:18:11 Speaker 1 So for example, like every stitch we approximate cost us four bucks. So even early on if I design a product, it's.
00:23:18:11 - 00:23:20:24 Speaker 2 Close stocks that's quite high.
00:23:21:01 - 00:23:37:23 Speaker 1 When I say stitch I mean I'm sorry a step I should say step. So like one finished stitch step. So you have a reference point as to how much this might cost and where the benchmark competitors are and and whether it's going to be feasible. So we create these so stepping stones and guides.
00:23:37:23 - 00:23:44:13 Speaker 2 So a couple questions for you. Yeah. Go hit me. So would you rather go a year without sleep or a year without Wi-Fi?
00:23:44:13 - 00:23:49:19 Speaker 2 Oh, the caveat is a year without Wi-Fi. Yeah, you still have to run your business.
00:23:49:20 - 00:23:56:24 Speaker 1 Okay. So. Right. Oh, goodness me. Part of me wishes I could not sleep so I could get more work done. And that's probably not healthy. It's,
00:23:56:24 - 00:24:03:00 Speaker 1 I think for the no sleep would send me into insanity. So I think I'd have to say no Wi-Fi.
00:24:03:00 - 00:24:06:22 Speaker 1 Although I don't know how I'm running this business without the internet.
00:24:06:22 - 00:24:07:22 Speaker 2 Telephone, you know?
00:24:07:24 - 00:24:10:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. Just bring it back. Yeah, I find that it's a little bit.
00:24:10:13 - 00:24:11:12 Speaker 2 Like give back. Yeah.
00:24:11:12 - 00:24:15:01 Speaker 1 No, I think in reality, for the business, you would have to be.
00:24:15:01 - 00:24:23:10 Speaker 1 It would have to be. Yeah. Wi-Fi. We have to just figure out a way without it. Skype. Would I like to import to me? I can't, I can't work without Skype.
00:24:23:12 - 00:24:24:01 Speaker 2 Me too.
00:24:24:01 - 00:24:24:13 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:24:24:13 - 00:24:27:20 Speaker 2 Viral for the wrong reason. A total launch flop.
00:24:27:23 - 00:24:28:23 Speaker 1 Total one flop.
00:24:28:23 - 00:24:29:16 Speaker 2 Really?
00:24:29:17 - 00:24:41:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. Look, I can understand a perspective of going viral. Any any lack, any traction is good traction. But this this mission is is too important for us. And I wouldn't want
00:24:41:18 - 00:24:54:15 Speaker 1 our intentions to be misunderstood. And then we not being able to pivot and and truly and stay true to the mission. So if we got known, like I think about actors getting pigeonholed into certain roles.
00:24:54:21 - 00:25:03:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't see them as anything else. If we went viral for the wrong reason and maybe something's detrimental to the mission, I think that would be. Yeah, that would that would hurt more.
00:25:03:05 - 00:25:03:20 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:25:03:20 - 00:25:08:11 Speaker 2 And unlimited funding or instead product market fit.
00:25:08:11 - 00:25:10:09 Speaker 1 Instead product market fit, not even core.
00:25:10:11 - 00:25:11:01 Speaker 2 Always.
00:25:11:03 - 00:25:30:15 Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely. Not even a question. Yeah. Look, I, I think and in some ways unlimited funding is just breeds issues. I think we've, we've bootstrapped this because we want to make every step intentional and know that when we have the money we've bought or moved in directions that we really need, rather than just money and stuff. So it probably markets it every single time.
00:25:30:17 - 00:25:33:09 Speaker 1 Because I think that's going to create more impact and more value.
00:25:34:01 - 00:25:40:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. And what is the best advice that you've ever heard in your entire life?
00:25:40:13 - 00:25:41:12 Speaker 1 Yeah,
00:25:41:12 - 00:25:48:16 Speaker 1 keep it business specific because otherwise I'll tail off on a different tangent. I think the.
00:25:48:16 - 00:25:57:13 Speaker 1 the the importance of the systems you have in your life. It's all it's all good and well to have perfect product and to have a ripple launcher and all these other things.
00:25:57:13 - 00:26:05:13 Speaker 1 And it's really exciting. General Stix, you know, it's so exciting to build a small business and to be to be working on something you care so deeply about.
00:26:05:13 - 00:26:07:04 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:26:07:06 - 00:26:23:23 Speaker 1 But there are so many ups and so many downs and making sure that I have all the systems in place to look after myself and maintain a level of balance in my life and look after the people around me that I really care about. Because, look, we all know the reality that 90% of businesses fail to grow in the first three years.
00:26:24:00 - 00:26:44:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. And I want to make sure that I did not forget to support the people around me and didn't forget to look after myself, because my mental and physical health will always be more important than it's business. No matter how valuable I think it can be, I will, as a founder and somebody very passionate about this, create far more impact over the course of my life.
00:26:44:13 - 00:26:48:21 Speaker 1 If I look after myself, rather than burning out now and frying any opportunity in the future.
00:26:48:23 - 00:26:51:00 Speaker 2 And how do you keep yourself from burning up.
00:26:51:02 - 00:27:18:01 Speaker 1 And, I am an avid sport sportsperson of every college you can throw at me until I until go with contact. So I'm not a rugby player, right? I break too easily, but I can say I'm very active. I love getting out in the outdoors. I've been a surfer and a rock climber. So for most of my life, and it's those carving out those that time and space to clear your mind.
00:27:18:12 - 00:27:35:13 Speaker 1 But just the act of talking through things allows you to process them for me, and it clears my mind. And it means I can come back tomorrow and only really worry about the stuff at stuck. Not for the other noise that's floating around. I can kind of processing Merrick Garland. Sam Sam's dying. I just think it's the audio diary.
00:27:35:15 - 00:27:42:05 Speaker 2 I love that, I'm also a big advocate for anything. Health and fitness. Yeah. Health and fitness. Right?
00:27:42:08 - 00:27:43:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:43:11 - 00:27:49:16 Speaker 2 The only last question I have is if For the next founder that we bring on Founders in Motion.
00:27:49:18 - 00:27:51:20 Speaker 2 What question what you want to ask them?
00:27:51:20 - 00:27:54:15 Speaker 1 I think it's that age old question.
00:27:54:15 - 00:27:58:01 Speaker 1 Is if if money wasn't an issue and nothing was an issue, what would you be doing?
00:27:58:01 - 00:27:59:03 Speaker 2 Oh, I love that.
00:27:59:03 - 00:28:00:02 Speaker 1 That's my favorite one.
00:28:00:02 - 00:28:01:19 Speaker 2 So it's it's the reset.
00:28:01:19 - 00:28:08:15 Speaker 1 It's not it's the one that it clarifies whether you are doing something because of societal expectations or you're doing something.
00:28:08:15 - 00:28:09:08 Speaker 2 So you're
00:28:09:08 - 00:28:12:18 Speaker 2 well thank you, Ben, for coming on founders emotion. Appreciate you having me.
00:28:12:18 - 00:28:22:24 Speaker 2 Again, super enjoy hearing from a creative perspective because I think we just focus so much on like, tech startups and all that fun stuff that makes the news. But like,
00:28:22:24 - 00:28:33:05 Speaker 2 I think businesses come in different size, different shapes and different types and I think it's great to highlight a business that's doing something a little bit different from what we usually see in the news.
00:28:33:07 - 00:28:34:08 Speaker 2 But thank you for coming.
00:28:34:08 - 00:28:36:21 Speaker 1 I'm very welcome. Thank you for having me. Cheers.
00:28:36:21 - 00:28:57:21 Speaker 1 Society spends a lot of time glorifying tech founders, but we think it's also very important to hear from someone on the creative side of things. Hope you enjoy the conversation with Ben. And if you want to hear more early stage founders stories, you can find them here. And remember to like and subscribe to the channel. It really helps us in delivering these content to you.
00:28:57:23 - 00:28:59:24 Speaker 1 Till next time.
00:28:59:24 - 00:29:06:03 Unknown Hmmm...
00:30:06:17 - 00:30:15:15 Speaker 1 So it's been this quite mutually beneficial relationship where we help them with the gear and we repair for them, and we help triage the gear, get it back out and also
00:30:47:14 - 00:30:52:12 Speaker 1 The hardest challenge, I think, is maintaining mental balance.
00:30:52:12 - 00:30:58:10 Speaker 1 so many factors like the ambiguity of starting a business, maybe not having a business background and not having a design background.
00:30:58:10 - 00:31:01:12 Speaker 1 team management conflict, all that stuff,
00:31:01:12 - 00:31:04:16 Speaker 1 And then it's also the business side of things like all the ups and downs.
00:31:04:16 - 00:31:18:05 Speaker 1 I always got there, and I trust myself to always get there. But There's that, those emotional fluctuations of yes, you succeeded or not, that didn't work, and bring yourself back to stable every day to make sure you bring yourself your best version of yourself into the studio every day.
00:31:18:05 - 00:31:33:12 Speaker 1 So, you know, influencing Frank's mood or making a rash decision because you're tired and you're stressed over those systems. And all of the support networks, you have become really valuable in navigating the ambiguity and the risk and all the things you've taken on.
00:31:33:12 - 00:31:41:05 Speaker 1 And I think in general, that's the hardest bit is, is maintaining a level of trust and confidence and stability in yourself to keep on